Relational Aesthetic Subjectivities w/Judith Frederike Popp
Show notes
In this episode, Élaina interviews Dr Judith-Frederike Popp, a post-doctoral researcher in philosophical aesthetics at the University of Applied Sciences Würzburg-Schweinfurt’s Faculty of Design. They address, among other things, topics of theory-practice interdisciplinarity, what it means to be a relation subject, and the aesthetic agency of online influencers.
You can register for “Taking Sides: Design and art between autonomy and intervention”, an interdisciplinary hybrid symposium held in Würzburg and online on the 20th and 21st of May 2022.
You can register by emailing this address: symposium.fg@fhws.de
Or by visiting this website starting in April: https://fg.fhws.de/taking-sides
You can find Dr Popp’s academic and literary work at the following links:
Website: https://fg.fhws.de/personen/dr-judith-frederike-popp/
ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3711-3637
Academia.edu: https://fhws.academia.edu/FrederikePopp
And you can follow her on Instagram @judith_gayk and on Twitter @FrederikePopp
Books mentioned in this episode:
“Critical Zones: The Science and Politics of Landing on Earth”, eds. Bruno Latour and Peter Weibel
“What About Activism?”, ed. Steven Henry Madoff
Movies mentioned in this episode:
2001 Space Odyssey
Aniara (2018)
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Find the transcripts at https://www.elainagauthiermamaril.com/philosophy-casting-call-podcast
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Philosophy Casting Call is hosted, edited, and produced by Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril
Follow Élaina on Instagram @spinoodler and Twitter @ElainaGMamaril
Transcript
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 0:04
This is Philosophy Casting Call
Hello, and welcome to Philosophy Casting Call, a podcast that features underrepresented philosophical talent. My name is Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril and I’m your host and resident casting director. Today, we are going to Germany to eavesdrop on my conversation with Dr. Judith-Frederike Popp. She is currently a post-doctoral researcher in the Faculty of Design at the University of Applied Sciences Würzburg-Schweinfurt, where she focuses on philosophy and aesthetics of design, theories of rationality and irrationality, practical self-determination and subjectivity, philosophy of psychoanalysis.
I first met Judith-Frederike where I meet most of my academic kindred spirits: on Instagram. This means that I actually interacted with her art before I even knew she was a philosopher. I find that, in many ways, this conversation echoes the one I had last season with Professor Jen Scuro about philosophy as a creative practice, so I encourage you to revisit that episode. Today, among other things, Judith-Frederike and I discuss interdisciplinarity, the theory-practice gap, and what it means to philosophically assess the aesthetic agency of online influencers.
Before we begin, I have an announcement. Together with photographer Johanna Diehl, Judith-Frederike is organising a free hybrid symposium on the 20th and 21rst of May 2022. “Taking Sides: Design and art between autonomy and intervention” will take place in English and in German and will cover many of the themes discussed in this episode from practitioners of many different artistic and academic disciplines. I will put the registration link in the show notes. Now, without any further ado, here is my conversation with Judith-Frederike Popp.
Welcome Judith, Frederike, Judith-Frederike! How are you?
Judith-Frederike Popp 2:39
Yes, I'm fine. Thank you for inviting me.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 2:42
You're very welcome. Would you like to introduce yourself to the listeners?
Judith-Frederike Popp 2:46
Yes. Hello, everyone. I am Judith-Frederike, I'm philosopher from Germany, and I'm a postdoc, I completed my PhD in 2018. And I'm currently focusing on aesthetics and working on in research and teaching. And I'm working with art and design scholars and researchers and students, but also with philosophers.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 3:13
And I think a good place to start would be: What is your definition of aesthetics? Because I feel like a lot of people have different ideas. When you think about that, what do you mean by aesthetics?
Judith-Frederike Popp 3:25
Yeah, that's a quite quite a big question. Because it's, there's no real answer. Like, the people are not sure about this, either. But from a philosophy standpoint, it's like more aesthetics is a certain way of orientation, observation, interaction with the world. I'm not an art aesthetic, I would not say that. It's not only something that can be found in art. But more like it's more a general capacity human beings have to get into contact with the world through the senses. And it has a unique point of view, I think that's the only way I'm like, a little bit of Kantian is to say that aesthetics has something to do with that. You look at something or you experience something for itself and for its own sake, and this element has something to do with it. It doesn't have to be some like kind of a predictive way of oh, you only have to have this kind of connection. But it's something that plays a role in aesthetics in any case.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 4:37
Because you mentioned in the beginning that you also incorporate design. So I guess a way to explain that it's not just art, as in fine art or even contemporary art, but it's how we experience the world through our senses and pay attention to design.
Judith-Frederike Popp 4:53
That'd be accurate. Yes, yes.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 4:55
How did you get into philosophy and find this as an area that particularly interested you?
Judith-Frederike Popp 5:03
Yeah, the interesting thing is, I had a very broad upbringing in philosophy, I would say, but my initial getting into contact with it was due to school, I had a very good philosophy teacher in school. But, originally, I planned to become an author, I had a great joy in constructing things out of language. And this is something to play with language in a creative way and to go to the deep end, and have some kind of very close relationships with thing, which was quite important from the beginning. But originally, I was like, "Okay, I want to become an author. And in this case, it is a good idea to do some humanities studies". And so together with a good philosophy teacher, I landed in the philosophy field. And over the course of my studies, I became very interested in not only playing with language, but to very carefully and very deeply explore how we construct our words through language. And so I became very interested in philosophy in a very extensive and comprehensive sense. And the thing, why aesthetics, it's not an accident, I'm very interested in the interdisciplinary connections of philosophy. And I'm very interested this distinction between theory and practice. And I think that's what these two things, two of the most important things in philosophy, if it wants to remain relevant, to get into contact with people from practice, and to get into contact with people from other disciplines, and aesthetics is one of the areas where you can do both. So that was one of the, I think, maybe methodological reasons why I chose this area. And of course, I have an interest more like in a systematic or conceptual interest and aesthetic questions, too.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 7:02
It's interesting that you took your affinity and desire to construct worlds and build worlds with language into design. And I think I'm not the only person who thinks aesthetics and thinks "visual" as the first thing. And obviously, you mentioned all of the senses, and you yourself are an artist, and you draw, I want to ask you about when you say that the future of philosophy is to be interdisciplinary, I feel a lot of affinity with that view. I also think that it's something that is discussed more and more in philosophy, however, there is a sticking point between what we mean between the theory and the practice. And you mentioned that you work with art that artists right now and designers, how do you experience your activity as a philosopher in relation to those people? Like what is it that you as like a theorist of aesthetics, bring to the table?
Judith-Frederike Popp 8:05
The interesting thing here is that this can only be understood, if you combine it with "What can they bring to me?", because the interesting thing is that I'm currently preparing a seminar I'm doing with a colleague of mine in the next semester at my university, and she is a photographer, and she's a photography artist. And she's doing, she's a practitioner, of course, and she's very interested in theory, too. But her focus, of course, is in the practice. And the interesting thing in our discussions, because we are trying to do a seminar about theory and practice, is that sometimes, I think, and that's something I'm hoping for, when it comes to my students, of course too, is that I'm thinking we are currently living in times where critical thinking is so important, maybe as has never been before. So I would say it's something I'm trying to teach my students, of course, is kind of critical thinking that's not like boring, something like only, which only has something to do with like, dry logic or something like that.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 9:11
Like a thought experiment.
Judith-Frederike Popp 9:15
Yes! But which has something to do with it's not the case that we go into the world and everything is clear. So we have to practice this kind of thinking, in order to reach our goals. And of course, in order to think about our acting, our agency, and how we want to change the world and all kinds of all these kinds of things which are very relevant for students, of course today, but it is something that can be very stressful, and it can be very hard and problems do not serve themselves and these kinds of things. And I think this is a practice this practice of critical thinking is something that is creative in itself, and I think that is something I can, where I can have a connection with of course creative people. And the other thing is that sometimes, when it comes to what I can learn from it, is that sometimes I have like the intuition, I have the problem myself. It's not something I'm saying about other philosophers. But it's something important to me too, is that sometimes I think philosophers tend to think that they can make everything clear. And I'm learning from creative people and creative professionals that sometimes it is very important to leave things complicated. And this is something I'm learning everyday when working with artists and designers and scholars from these kinds of fields. Because it, there is a quality in it in itself to acknowledge the complexity and to say something like, okay, maybe we should leave it there for a moment and think about and experience what it does with us.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 10:53
I had a similar experience when I first met a professor who worked in health services research. And I explained, you know, what my theory was about kind of relational autonomy and asymmetrical power relations. And she turned to me and she said, "Oh, so you get to like, deal with all the messy bits!", because you know, my research can be read as psychology can be read, a sociology of medicine can be read as many things but I do think philosophy has that ability to take the messy bits that fall out of the scientific method and of a lot of other kinds of methodologies. And as you say that when you speak to practitioners, whether it's in art, or in my case, in medicine, and health services, that messy part is a part of life. So I think it's really cool that we came at it from completely different areas. And we came to the same conclusion that what our role can be is, "Oh, let's sit with the messy bit and try to make sense of it and 'make sense' of it isn't necessarily 'make it clear'."
Judith-Frederike Popp 11:59
Yeah. And it's, sometimes I'm thinking, when it comes to like things like academic environments, or something like that, that sometimes it can be very disastrous if people are very famous scholars, or philosophers, or of course, people from other disciplines, to when they approach all kinds of things like, "Oh, I have the solution. And when I'm done, everything is clear", especially for younger students, or academics or emerging scholars, it can be very devastating to have like, "Oh, I'm meeting someone who thinks that when he or she is done, everything is clear, nothing is left for me to say something about it". So it's like, I think this is not not only something which is important in theory, or in writing on thinking, but also in our models of communication, when it comes to academia and these kind of things.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 12:51
I think that's complicated also by the financial structure of universities, because you're constantly asked to prove that you're adding value, and that what you have to say is original, and that you've discovered something new and for them to get grant money and things. So it's, it's a very complicated web of neoliberalism. So looking forward, what do you hope to work on in your project with practitioners?
Judith-Frederike Popp 13:16
Like my systematic goal, or my philosophy goal, is I'm currently working on my second book, and I'm trying to develop a conception which is, it's it has some important parallels with your work that I'm working on a conception of what it means to be an aesthetic agent and subject today. And this has something to do with that we have to really rethink this very persistent idea of creative genius that I think that there are aesthetic potentials, both in art design and everyday life that are not properly acknowledged, because we tend to remain in this old categories of all aesthetic value, our aesthetic subjectivity, or freedom or things like autonomy can only be created or further developed, if we have geniuses, that our eyes that can be isolated and I think there's two there's not enough acknowledgement of the beauty, I know the beauty concept is very critical in aesthetics, but I think the the value the beauty and the interesting dimensions off doing things together and to like have some kind of relationality here, of course, and that if we want to have some kind of preliminary concept of aesthetic subjectivity, for example, we have to focus on the on a balance between individual spontaneity of, for example, or creativity, and more real, a more relational concept of doing things together.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 15:00
I wanted to ask you something. And before that, I just want to make it clear for the listeners who might not be aware: In the traditional Western philosophical canon, I mean aesthetics as a kind of appears quite late kind of 18th 19th century. But obviously, ancient Greeks discuss beauty a lot, beauty is often associated with the good and the true as a kind of a package deal. And then when we get to Kant, and other German names that I forget now, all the people that Gadamer mentioned, aesthetics gets to be this idea of like, what is the sublime and the idea of the genius, and the idea of the artistic genius that can only be understood by other geniuses, the kind of a very tragic, romantic figure, and also very misogynistic. And I wanted to just lay that out as a foundation for everyone, because since you talk about aesthetic agency and the marrying of the spontaneity of the creative person with a relational quality, how would you analyse the figure, for example of a female influencer, who obviously, is a creative person, has a creative practice, but also is constantly in dialogue with an audience or multiple audiences. And as an influencer, you know, wants to make a living or wants to make money from this, and therefore, is taking cues about what the audience wants from her.
Judith-Frederike Popp 16:29
Yeah, I think there are two very important levels here. And maybe on a very fundamental level, I would, of course, I would say, this could be a very interesting aesthetic dimension, that this could be a good, or an interesting model of what is happening, aesthetically. And I would, of course, I would say that this inference when it comes to her agency or her practices, this could be a very good example for aesthetic agency. Apart from that, I think there are two very important points. The one thing is that I think these kinds of examples are very important, not only because it is a opportunity, maybe for lesser privileged people to get somewhere without relying on some kind of upbringing or something like some classical artistic education, for example, or something like that. And that I would say, there's an emancipatory aspect in this. And the other thing is that, of course, that that is one of the focus points in my research is, the whole thing like aesthetic is not something that can be determined in a timeless manner. Of course, it has to be tied to, for example, technological aspects, like digital communication, for example. So of course, it's not an accident that we have influences some kind of a contemporary phenomenon. At the same time, I would say this, the second very important point of this, of such an example is, I'm from I come from a background of critical theory. And of course, I would say Against this background, I would say, when we talk about aesthetics, we have to talk about, for example, things like exploitation of aesthetic practices, and the neoliberal exploitation of these practices. And I would say, in the case of the influence, I would say, we have to think not only about her as a singular person, but of course, about the whole collective behind it, people working with her , of course, but all of us as consuming these kinds of content. And I would say there's something very interesting in the relationship, which becomes present here, between an influencer and her crowd or something like that. And I think that it's very important to see that this is some kind of relational, deeply, really relational thing because she would not be the person she would be she is if she had not this kind of crowd. And so I would say that her aesthetic agency is inherently tied to her audience. So I would say this is a good very interesting example for she may appear like a creative genius, if you isolate her acting and her practice, but if you try to get the whole picture in mind, it gets more like the very relational part. And of course, it has this kind of very fragile ambivalence between it can help her in practice, of course, her autonomy and have freedom but at the same time, it has this emancipatory impulse only against the background of digital communication, which is tied to very questionable material backgrounds.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 19:46
Yes, and we could also discuss that, although it is true that digital media allows a greater access to more people it still reproduces society's strata and hierarchy. And who has more followers and who the algorithm prefers and all of these things? Yeah, I think it's interesting because there is more and more discussion about, for example, the teams that work with a single influencer and like how no even like to set up a seemingly candid shot, everything, all the work and the labour that goes behind that, and I hear two different discourses. So one is the influencers trying to, and they're mostly women. And so kind of saying, like, stop denigrating us as if like, there is no labour that goes into this creative production and to is a response to the documented harm that is done by believing that these people exists, and their lives are perfect, and then having negative effect on people viewing the content. And so saying, like, No, you know, it's not perfect, and it's not effortless. And there's a lot of discussion of authenticity. So I was wondering, like, since you work on these kinds of co-constructed relational subjectivities, what is your view on authenticity? Is it an important concept? Should we do away with it?
Judith-Frederike Popp 21:05
Yeah, I think I would say the interesting the last part of what you said, I think it's very important. I think there's a maybe even tragic element in this in these kind of things, not in the in the reality itself, but in the philosophy approaches towards it. Because in my opinion, if there's anything we learned from these, all of these postmodern discussions about the end of everything, I would say, we need concepts like subjectivity and authenticity, we cannot construct all words without them. But these are hugely problematic concepts. And we have to learn or to acknowledge that these are not concepts that can be tied in a very fixed manner to concepts like Oh, to be a subject means to be in control or something like that, and an authenticity of course, you have to ask the question, what does it mean to live to practice authenticity, to not only say something, oh, yes, I have this thought experiment. And to be authentic means to be truthful, for example, in these, these, these and these kind of situations, but that's not all. Because of course, authenticity can entail if we have a thick concept of authenticity, we can say something like, okay, being authentic is important, because it is an expression of our self relation and self relations is something that is very important for my research and my understanding of subjectivity, because my understanding of subjectivity is not like tied to self consciousness, but more to practice self relations, like we live our selves in, relating to ourselves through others, of course, that's the relational part, but of course, through ourselves too. So we have this very weird, very unsteady, very fragile relation to ourselves, which is not not not good all the time, which can be like, of course, we can we can lie to ourselves and we can not know ourselves. So it is not helpful in this context to speak of authenticity as some kind of very Richard ideal, because I would say that authenticity is something that is very difficult to maintain. And especially when you do not only say something like authenticity and our self relationship, but more like authenticity towards others, like in the influence example. So I would say, of course, things like pride, or pity, or jealousy, or these kinds of things are very important to talk about. Even in aesthetics. It's not only an ethical question, it has to we have to talk about things like only a short example. But of course, if there's this like very difficult relationship between art and design, for example, because it's like, sometimes designers knowledge, like some bad art or something like that.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 24:06
Because it's functional?
Judith-Frederike Popp 24:11
Yes. And because it's not elite enough, or something.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 24:12
Like the idea of purity also, pure art for art's sake or commercial art.
Judith-Frederike Popp 24:16
Yes. Right. Yeah. And, but sometimes, I think it also has something to do with to being afraid of losing privilege. And of course, I totally understand why some art discourses are very, especially in philosophy, are very rigid and saying," Oh, we have to reserve some kind of special place for art". I totally understand that, especially in today's times, but this kind of special place, and I think something else is true for subjectivity. We have to reserve some kind of special place for subjectivity because it's so important and it's locked when it's lost. It's it's such a devastating experience, but that does not mean to put it on a pedestal and to say something Like, Oh, we have this very vague idea of subjectivity of, for example, being to be strongly authentic all the time, or something like that. No, that's not the right thing. We have to talk about it again and again and again.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 25:15
So what I'm hearing you say is we need to critically examine our value system in a sense of, what do we mean by valuing something? So if we say we value art, how do we put that into practice? And do you think this is why there's a kind of resistance towards more interdisciplinary philosophy or applied so called applied philosophy, because as you've kind of hinted up before theorising is, in a way, a creative practice? So then what do you think that the resistance towards having more interdisciplinary projects and philosophy is because people are afraid and want to keep like, the special status? And even in the questions that I've told you today? It's like what is, you know, the added value of a philosophical approach to this? I asked these because these are questions that I've received myself and that I think about myself. But given the strong statement, you said at the beginning about the future philosophy being in interdisciplinarity, how do you see this kind of resistance towards a more disciplinary bending?
Judith-Frederike Popp 26:30
I do not claim to speak for everyone. It's only my personal experience. But I would say that, of course, it's important to talk about fears of losing relevance as a discipline. And of course, we are living in a time where every kind of humanities discipline is threatened. So neoliberal thoughts and approaches towards University and education and research and these kinds of things. And Against this background, I've I find that very, I understand that fully that you have to think about, okay, we cannot lose our discipline in this. And this is very important thing. And I have this, when I'm talking with my students, we are talking about interdisciplinarity, of course, and these kind of things we are talking about not only "Okay, what does it mean to really talk with each other to re evaluate our concepts between disciplines?" But of course, interdisciplinarity does not only rely on exchanging concepts, but it relies on the disciplines knowing themselves, of course, interdisciplinarity is totally useless. If both sides will say, Okay, I'm giving up my discipline. There's no interdisciplinarity. So it's like, it's inherently better than this kind of thing, that it's not about losing the discipline and the special character of the discipline. And I think it has a philosophy, the thing which is special, which has to remain, of course, is a certain kind of questioning every concept we are using, and to have some kind of to think about, not only sometimes in today's lives we are talking about, especially when it comes to politics and these kinds of things, we are talking about things like in what kind of world do you want to live? It's a very important question, of course. But I think in philosophy, we have to remind everyone that there is no word in the abstract sense of everyone understands the same under this concept, but we have to talk about what kind of wealth understanding do we have, and where our differences and similarities when it comes to these kind of things. So I would say this is something which is not, of course, should not be lost, lost or should not be forgotten, is to really question the terms we are using and the concept we are using, but to really question the values and the value systems behind them.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 29:02
So what are you working on right now?
Judith-Frederike Popp 29:04
I'm working on my aesthetic subjectivity project. And in this there's a special area I'm currently focusing on the first time I'm working on this project for a little bit more than a year now. And I firstly reviewed my understanding and sharpened my understanding of subjectivity because it's, it's interdisciplinary in itself. I have a background also a background and psychoanalysis. So I have a very strong ideas about what it means to combine inner and outer aspects of subjectivity and psychological and bodily aspects of this kind of and at the moment, I'm working on the aesthetic material I'm interested in, because this is something it's it's a very critical question in philosophical aesthetics, because this whole as you will know, this whole "What is philosophical method?" question is very, very important one, but a very stressful could, can be a very stressful one.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 30:07
For some reason, just saying, "I'm going to read books" is not enough...
Judith-Frederike Popp 30:11
And in philosophical aesthetics, we have this challenge. In the face of we are not like, for example, art historians or like empirical social scientists thinking about art, which is a very interesting area in itself. But we are philosophers. So we have to deal with aesthetic objects and practices without doing bad empirical science. So it's like, I'm currently working on this. And the area I'm very interested in is I name it on my name for it. It's a working name, but my term for it is the Borderlands between art and design. I'm very interested in phenomena which challenge that challenge our established understandings of aesthetic objects and practices. And so I'm there are two areas I'm very interested in. I'm currently reviewing exhibitions and looking for examples, is the one area is the area of digitality and virtuality. And the other area is the area of activism and participate participation. And these are two areas where I have the assumption at the moment and intuition at the moment that there's something happening in the aesthetic practice world, that is a new thing. It's not a new thing. That's that's not that's not the right concept, but it's an area where a traditional concepts of aesthetics and art and design and practice and theory and practice are challenged. So I'm currently reviewing these kinds of things. And when it comes to methods, I'm trying to find the balance between him hermeneutical analysis like talking and reading, writing, and reading books, and more systematic conceptual analysis of the practices that are taking place here.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 32:05
That's fascinating, I'll definitely have to hit you up on any of your publications. I'll also link your your current publications in the show notes, of course. And as we end, I always ask my guests, what are you reading or viewing right now, that is giving you life?
Judith-Frederike Popp 32:22
I spent huge amount of time of the last quarantined winter, in my very small apartment in Vienna, and I rediscovered science fiction. In the past, I have not been a science fiction kind of person. But now I'm very interested in it. And I watched a couple of science fiction films. And I'm very interested in this kind of special kind of what can we learn about our pictures of space of outer space, about our living here on Earth. So this is kind of something from the art world, which I'm very interested in medicine at the moment. And since I have a background in film, aesthetics, I'm quite interested in film. And when it comes to books, and the interesting thing is I'm currently I have two books. The one book is is named "What about activism?", it has made I think the editor editor is someone who has, interestingly, the names Madoff as his last name, and it's a very interesting addition anthology about art and activism. And the other very interesting book is the exhibition book by the exhibition project Critical Zones in Culture, in Germany, and it is very huge book full of very interesting essays about this exhibition, which tries to capture the fragility of our living space here on Earth. And this is the term critical zone, we are living in a critical zone. And I really, really liked this book because it's, it's it has a fusion, very relational fusion between artists, scientists, designers, and amateurs and professionals. And it's, I think it's a very interesting thing.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 34:12
It's cool that you're looking at kind of the same topic from both fiction and nonfiction is the one title of science fiction.
Judith-Frederike Popp 34:21
Yeah. Film. Of course, I'm a huge fan of 2001 Space Odyssey by Stanley Kubrick, one of the best firms in my experience in the hole. But I'm totally convinced of this film.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 34:41
I couldn't make it past hte first 20 minutes. I was like "Thus Sayeth Zarathustra? Sounds great. And then okay, lost interest." But yes, yes, absolutely.
Judith-Frederike Popp 34:50
One is more certainly more contemporary. It has strong female roles, and it is a quite it's not so famous. It's a Swedish film, I think, from 2018. And it's called Aniara. And it's a very interesting science fiction movie because it is, it is a film adaptation often airpos from like the, I think from the 50s, from a Swedish author who got the, I think the Nobel Prize to, and it's a apos in the classical form written in the classical form, and it's like, it's a story about the spaceship called Aniara, which gets lost in space and it has a very interesting story and it does a very interesting film.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 35:40
Great, I'll definitely link to that as well. So, as we close, is there anywhere on the internet you would like people to find you?
Judith-Frederike Popp 35:49
I have an account, which is dedicated to both to my some of my academic things that you can find like for example, and recommendations by me for publications and these kinds of things, but also to my art and it's like it's a little bit this has something to do with the time where I did this account were made this account it's like Judith, like my first name and the second part of my Instagram account name is Gayk. It's like G-A-Y-K. And it's a little bit, it's the the mother name of my grandmother. So it's like it's not my, it's not Popp, but Judith Gayk. And besides that I have like an academic academia.edu site under my normal name, and I'm even on Twitter.
Yes, but I think it's Frederike Popp. It's Frederike Popp and my name on the Twitter account is Judith-Frederike Popp. So you can find if you search for my regular name.
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 36:51
I'll definitely confirm that and put the real one. This is what happens when you have too many names! Judith told me when we first had a pre interview that she is a living thought experiment. So in whichever way you choose to find her, you can find her on the internet. Well, thank you so much for sitting with me and having this discussion. And hopefully we will keep in touch.
Judith-Frederike Popp 37:24
Thank you very much! And thank you for this awesome podcast!
Élaina Gauthier-Mamaril 37:40
I had so much fun chatting with Judith-Frederike and I hope our enthusiasm shone through. Thank you so much for joining me today and I hope you will continue to follow @philoCCpod on Twitter, Instagram, and TikTok. If you have any questions or if you would like to suggest future guests, you can email me at philosophycastingcallpod@gmail.com. The best way to support the podcast is to subscribe wherever you are listening right now and rate and review it with 5 stars on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, but you are also welcome to leave me a tip or to become a monthly supporter on ko-fi.com/philoccpod. May your aesthetic agency be ever relational, until next time: bye!
Transcribed by https://otter.ai